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| Bridge Pins flying through the air! http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=9761 |
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| Author: | Cameron Reddy [ Sun Dec 10, 2006 5:51 pm ] |
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Trying to string up my first fiddle... and the dang bridge pins keep popping out. What in the heck could I have done wrong? The pins are LMI bone. Ebony bridge from LMI. Used a five degree LMI reamer to taper the holes. Filed out slots in the bridge pins to accommodate the strings... Can anyone help? |
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| Author: | Alain Desforges [ Sun Dec 10, 2006 6:45 pm ] |
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Not enough space between the pin and the string. As you're tentioning up the string the pressure pops the pin. Just file a little channel in the bridge itself... It always surprises me how big you have to file this hole. The string can be rather 'beefy' in that area. The pin is just there to fill in the hole really. I've seen it where the pin is removed and the string is still secured to the bridge. You still want as perfect a 'coupling' as you can achieve, so don't go over board and take just a little off (the bridge) at a time... Hope this helps. |
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| Author: | Kelby [ Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:09 pm ] |
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The other possibility is that the ball of the string is resting under the pin, rather than in front of it, so when the string comes up with tightening, the pin comes up too. If so, it's just a matter of persuading the ball of the string to rest in front of the pin. Easier said than done, though, sometimes. |
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| Author: | bob_connor [ Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:16 pm ] |
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The LMI bridge pins are all 3 degrees. Here's a quote from their website "Our bone bridge pins are a relatively new item and offer an affordable alternative to the exotic fossilized ivory pins for those looking for a high density pin (said to improve the transference of vibration from the string to the soundboard). All of our pins use the standard 3 degree taper and all are slotted with the exception of the Black Horn and Fossilized Walrus Ivory bridge pins, which are unslotted." Order another set from Stewmac. Their bone ones are 5 degree which will be suitable for your reamer. Cheers Bob |
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| Author: | JohnAbercrombie [ Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:29 pm ] |
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It can help to just put on one string (low E) and then stick your inspection mirror in there and have a look. You can also use your hand to feel what is going on as well. It is quite hard to visualize what is happening at first. Once you know how the string is supposed to sit, you will never have a problem troubleshooting this again. John PS- I wouldn't focus on taper discrepancies until you eliminate all the other possibilities. |
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| Author: | old man [ Mon Dec 11, 2006 7:16 am ] |
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If he's really talking about a fiddle, it'll be hard to get your hand in there. Ron |
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| Author: | JohnAbercrombie [ Mon Dec 11, 2006 7:55 am ] |
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[QUOTE=old man] If he's really talking about a fiddle, it'll be hard to get your hand in there. Ron[/QUOTE] I agree. I assumed it was a guitar, since I've never seen a fiddle with bridge pins. John |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Mon Dec 11, 2006 8:42 am ] |
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I am like Kelby here if the pin is popping out it sounds to me like the ball is under the pin. If the pin is 3 deg taper and the hole is 5 degree taper and the ball is wedging between the pin and bridge plate the pin still would not pop out. It may wiggle around, rise a little or fall out if string tension is loose and you turn the guitar over, but not pop out. The only way I can think of to pop a pin out at tension-up is to have the ball under the pin and not wedged between the plate and the pin. |
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| Author: | Cameron Reddy [ Mon Dec 11, 2006 9:00 am ] |
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Yes. Guitar. A Git-fiddle, as my Dad says. Thanks so much for the quick feedback. I went to bed last night quite depressed. All that work--months! And the pins were flying around. I filed out the channels in the pins (no channel in the bridge) even more. And that did it! Woohoo! It plays!! My action is set too high right now, and I think my truss rod is already ruined... I think I got too much glue in there under the fretboard and the head of the rod is stripped out! I had a bit too much bend in the fretboard and I got about a tenth of a turn before the threading slipped... Oh well, I'm not too happy with my fretboard anyhow, and pulling it will be good practice. But, right away. I'm going to play this thing for a while! No. two will begin at once! |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Mon Dec 11, 2006 9:12 am ] |
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When I put on new stings, i put the ball in the pin hole just below the bridge plate. I insert the pin but I do not push down at all. I then pull the sting lightly till I fell the ball seat on the bridge plate and then very slightly snug the pin while maintaining tension on the ball. You could put a straight dowel in this way and the ball would force the straight dowel against the hole and bridge in a manner that the dowel would not come out with out loosening up the string. Truth is pins are held in with a wedging force not a press fit. I know this is not the issue but thought it worth mentioning. If you are pressing in the pin to a tight press fit you are excessively wearing out the pin hole taper. The reason for the taper on the hole and pin is to allow the pin to take the wedging force with out deforming. |
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| Author: | Cameron Reddy [ Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:57 pm ] |
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Ok. Shall do. I just took it to my guitar lesson tonight and my teacher loved it, even with the action too high. She had her husband play it, and he commented on the surprisingly powerful bass. I made so many dang mistakes... I was actually afraid it wouldn't play in tune or the bridge would fly off, or the neck would brake off, or the top would split... |
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| Author: | David Collins [ Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:53 pm ] |
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Just out of curiosity, who's your teacher Cameron? |
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| Author: | Rod True [ Mon Dec 11, 2006 6:05 pm ] |
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I always make sure that the string is seated on the bridge plate and I don't use slotted pins as per this discussion here on Brian Kimsey's site |
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| Author: | Cameron Reddy [ Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:53 am ] |
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Hi David, You know her well. The last word in Blues Guitar. Yup. Shari Kane. Man, and does she have an eye for workmanship. She spotted EVERY little flaw! And fast 
She is a wonderful teacher--I'm fully convinced she is the best anywhere. And oh my God can she make that guitar just come alive! |
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| Author: | David Collins [ Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:35 am ] |
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She's incredible isn't she. Yes I know her fairly well. I've done a lot of work on her guitars, as well as for her son and husband. She refers a lot of students to me as well, and between her private lessons and WCC classes that can add up to quite a bit. She demands more out of her instruments than about anyone else I know. Hit's hard, uses a slide, and still wants the action low! I guess she demands the impossible from an instrument, but is happy with "as good as it can possibly get". But man, she can make incredible sounds come from those things. Even though I've been playing for over twenty years, I would still love to take lessons from her if I could find the time. Give me a call one of these days when you go to a lesson and drop by. My shop is probably less than a half mile from her house, near 7th and Miller. |
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| Author: | Cameron Reddy [ Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:12 pm ] |
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Shall do. I'm pretty close too. Just off Zeeb and Park. I'd love to see your shop! Talk to you soon! Cameron |
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| Author: | jhowell [ Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:34 pm ] |
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Cameron-- Congrats on the finished guitar! I know of several (to many) things that I will do differently on number 2.
You've also got a great teacher in Shari. It is a pleasure to be able to see and hear her play. But back to number one -- it is really a great accomplishment to finish a guitar. Do post some pics! |
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